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Sponsor |  usmjam | Mar 18, 1:09pm | The problem is not in God's dealings with man, its in man's towards God. God is holy and perfect. We, by our choice to sin, are separated from union with the perfect God in this life. The wages of sin is suffering, pain and ultimately death. Our choice to go it alone without God made this world what it now is.
Its about self-responsibility. By our wanting to either go it alone without God, or to tell God what He should do, we incur the consequences of separating from Him. The wages of sin is death and just one sin will separate us from that which is holy and pure. No amount of good works on our part ever being good enough to make up for the least sin.
For that reason there is nothing we can do to reunite with God. No amount of good works, let alone shaking our fist at Him in anger, will atone for our sin. God gave us a perfect world in Eden, the imperfect world which we now live in is of our own making.
The fact that we need to take responsibility for our selves is not a popular one in either society or in theology. We want the gubmint to provide everything while allowing us to do as we please. We expect the same with God.
Then when we find out that we can't have it as we think we want, we then question and rage against society and God. That just shows we want to make ourselves into our own gods. Well, we did, and the present world is the result.
The message of the gospel then is that if we expect justice, then we are dooming ourselves to hell. Our choices as stated above doom us, for we cannot save ourselves. Its a situation of our own making, not God's. |
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Sponsor | | lesoldham | Mar 19, 7:15am | Edit
What think ye this? How would you respond to someone who
said this if you were witnessing to them?
Having read all of the article I could stand, I noticed three common objections to belief in God that are almost universally found in atheist arguments. Two are age old questions. 1) Why is there so much evil in the world? 2) How can we tell the difference between myth and the true God? The third is a little newer but still found even in ancient times. 3) We are able to save ourselves; with the latest twist "science will save us."
We need to be able to answer these questions to our own satisfaction first and then with a compassionate attitude ("love never fails") communicate our true convictions to those who have rejected the God idea. By the way, realize that the most adamant atheist usually was once engulfed in religion. If presented with religion and "pat" answers they will not be able to receive anything you say. If you speak from your heart honestly including testimony of what God has done for you personally then most atheists will give you a fair hearing. (I find many atheists to be the most fair minded people I have met.) They will not be convinced but they will be able to discern if you are being honest or not so if you have not answered those three questions honestly to your own hearts satisfaction you will be at a disadvantage when witnessing to atheists.
Edit
None of these questions have easy answers and my ststements here will be about my personal experiences. You will have to speak out of your own experience but I hope I can give you an example as a guideline.
First, the "science will save us" attitude.
Many atheists are great lovers of science and their arguments are based on the idea that science and the empirical evidence method of obtaining "knowledge" have the potential of saving Mankind, not the individual but the human race. Formerly I thought this as well. I began to realize (before my redemption experience) that in spite of all our technology and empirical knowledge the human race was not making much progress toward achieving the Star Trek brand of noble enlightenment. Later I realized that the real core characteristics of every human had not changed throughout recorded history. The reason that Bible stories could be relevant today was because they spoke to the core characteristics of human existence. I also realized that all our technology and learning were not focused toward answering the core questions nor was science capable of answering these questions. No matter how much knowledge we have about how the brain functions, that knowledge will never keep us from crying at the loss of a loved one. Scientific knowledge can never comfort us in trying times, can never add to our joy in watching our children grow, can never help us find peace in our everyday living.
More later.
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|  Stum-ble | Mar 20, 1:17pm | I agree with USMJAM's statement that it is mans dealings toward God and I like how he stresses self responsibility, but I also believe LESOLDHAM has hit it on the nose with the three questions most unsaved people state as reasons to oppose believing in the living God.
I usually just allow the Holy Spirit to answer any questions as I myself
never know the condition of mans heart. I know that I too, am imperfect and
have left the fold and was the "prodigal child." Dissatisfaction in the world can lead to God or away from God.
It hurts me to hear people rant about a God they do not know. Yet I believe that what they are really ranting about is that they don't know. God is the one supreme thing that they can not influence and as a non believer - it
means letting go of all you knew to get to know.
I just wanted to know how others related or answered questions that non
believers ask or use to make a point. Everyone is or has been
searching for the answer at one time in their lives,
but the answer they want and the answer there is - is what believing all
is all about and what matters.
Do you believe. |
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Sponsor | | usmjam | Mar 21, 2:59pm | part two: if you can get them to understand the hopeless condition we are in and that we indeed cannot think we can tell God what to do then comes part two of the Gospel. Since we are doomed by even one of our sins, we can be saved only if someone took our place. Only if someone took the punishment for our sins. But in order to do that, the person sacrificing himself for us would have to be perfect, to be sinless. If we were depending on any fallible human, we're still lost.
That is the very reason why Jesus came into the world. To live as the perfect & sinless man. To be our sacrifice, although we do not deserve it.
No matter how much we'd try, we'd never be able to remain sinless. But Jesus, fully human and fully God, paid the price on Calvary.
I try to get both parts in when witnessing. Its great news, we are saved by His sacrifice. Most go away believing neither part of the gospel, for now. The Holy Spirit must do what we cannot, move a person's heart & mind to accept Him.
As far as suffering, there are many passages where Jesus told us to expect it in this life. Just as He suffered, we must carry our cross too. I'd point out to the skeptic that almost all the apostles were martyred. John the Baptist who Jesus called the greatest prophet was beheaded. This life still has sin, which results in suffering. Yet God is giving us eternity with Him. This life is but a fleeting moment in comparison. Even the hardest skeptic realizes that this life is nothing compared to eternity.
You can't argue a person into accepting Jesus, but we are to plant the seed. God's Holy Spirit does the rest.
Have a great Resurrection weekend everyone. |
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|  eyelusions | May 20, 6:47am | | That article was sad. What was worse was the utter hopelessness of the commentors. I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would rather believe so strongly that there is nothing to believe in but hurt and pain instead of even considering that there could be more to life. |
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|  jrg2z | Aug 17, 11:08am | Thanks for your comment! I understand what you're saying. I feel the same way alot. Trying to be objective, I would say most of life is positive [the good far outweighs the bad] It's just what we choose to focus on. The negative? or Positive! I am especially talking to myself here. Jesus told us to focus on God - to love Him w/all our heart, mind, soul and strength.
He also told us to focus [think] on what is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admireable, excellent or praiseworthy. I've read in scripture also that God would rather reward you for suffering for His name and the Gospel than for doing wrong. Look at Jesus, after He suffered hell for us on the cross. God lifted Him higher than everyone everywhere in heaven and on earth. He is our Savior and King and God forever. These are just my thoughts from what I think I know from scripture. Thanks for coming in! and giving me a chance to sound off! |
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